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| Author: | Rossy [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:27 am ] |
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Guys, Does it matter if you glue on the top or back first to the sides. Thanks. Ross |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:09 pm ] |
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I don't think it really matters depending on if there is anything you need to do before you finish it all up, personally I do the top first. Then double check all my mortise and tenon fittings, trim my heel block to the desired height and when all that's done seal up the back. Just my personal preference. Cheers -Paul- |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:14 pm ] |
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Hi Paul! Ross, my guess is most do the back first, for one reason: Squeezeout... It's easy to clean up if the box is open and it is the most visible. But.... truth is, it's your call, because it's your guitar. Doesn't really matter, you gotta do both. When you get the precise amount of glue down to get the job done, it's really easy to not have much in the way of cleanup. Cheers 
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:50 pm ] |
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I did the top first, but it was because I was anxious about getting the x-braces and upper transverse brace properly fitted into the kerfing...but it was my first guitar. On the other hand, I'll probably do it that way again. |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:46 pm ] |
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Yeah, but if you want a really clean interior, isn't it better to do the top first, so you can get at all the squeezeout? The back would be easier to clean through the soundhole than the top. |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:49 pm ] |
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at same time for me |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:53 pm ] |
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I always have all the bracing on the top and back and do all of the relief cuts in the kerfing to receive both sets of bracing before gluing anything. I glued the top on first on a single guitar out of nearly 500 and have done the back first since just for the ease of cleanup after it is installed. The squeeze out is minimal so you can still get to the small spots of it through the soundhole to clean up some of the top's too. Most times, The small beads are very eay to simply break or flick off with a light chisel stroke so it's not like you're going to have to lean on it or need any signifigant leverage. Just my preference...maybe out of laziness, but i like cleaniong the back edges up really well before closing it all up. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:34 pm ] |
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One thing about gluing the top on is that it can really amplify taps for some final voicing. Just a thought. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:21 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=CarltonM] Yeah, but if you want a really clean interior, isn't it better to do the top first, so you can get at all the squeezeout? The back would be easier to clean through the soundhole than the top.[/QUOTE] But unless you get in there with a mirror, you will never see the edge of the lining and the top because the x-brace should block the view. So if a clean interior is the key, than gluing the back on first is easier to clean up before the top gos on. |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:50 pm ] |
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I Like to fit both the top and the back then glue on the top, then the back. Rod I've had customers who even get little cameras in their to inspect your work, so your have got to get make sure everything is clean, like most of us I am obsessed by getting all the squeeze out cleaned off. |
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| Author: | Rossy [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:52 pm ] |
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Thanks again guys. It's a split decision, but I'll probably do the back first since I'm certainly not an expert with glue distribution. Later. Ross |
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| Author: | Rossy [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:54 pm ] |
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This could actually be another topic, but I'll try and ask it here and see if I get any responses. Just wondering how you guys make your cuts in the kerfing to fit the braces in. Thanks again guys. I really appreciate your time, help, and knowledge. Peace, Ross |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:44 pm ] |
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Rossy, if your braces ends are of even thicknesses and height at the tip that will be inserted in the lining, then you can use a router at a pre-determined depth of cut and rout out a channel. Just lay your back or top on the rim, take your pen and draw the edges of your braces tips onto the lining and voila! But wait, if i'm off track, someone will give you gooder advice! 
Serge |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:37 pm ] |
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I use a Dremel with a small carbide tipped router bit to cut all of the bracing reliefs in the kerfing. All of my bracing ends are finished at .100" so it all goes pretty quickly once they are marked and ready to cut. One more point on the top/back install sequence...you should not be using enough glue to give you much more than a very few tiny beads of squeeze out between the kerfing and the top or back plates. If you are, you're just making alot more work for yourself and giving yourself more to worry about than neccessary. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:45 pm ] |
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OK, I'll ask...how does one go about getting their brace ends to be at exactly .100"? Is that through the use of a jig, or years of being able to do it or because you trim/measure/trim/measure, etc.? The reason I ask is because I too used a Dremel to cut my relief in, but because my brace ends were inconsistent at end thickness, I had to adjust the height of the dremel slightly to accomodate each end. Took some time. Thanks! |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:16 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Kevin Gallagher] I always have all the bracing on the top and back and do all of the relief cuts in the kerfing to receive both sets of bracing before gluing anything. [/QUOTE] Me too...I thought I was being clever fitting everything first...shoulda known all you real luthiers thought of it first! Kevin, I saw one of your guitars in "the flesh" for the first time recently...you are truly the top of your class! 
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:17 am ] |
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[QUOTE=RussellR] Rod I've had customers who even get little cameras in their to inspect your work,[/QUOTE] Russell, man, keep those customers away from me! 
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:21 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Bill Greene] OK, I'll ask...how does one go about getting their brace ends to be at exactly .100"? Is that through the use of a jig, or years of being able to do it or because you trim/measure/trim/measure, etc.?[/QUOTE] Bill, this is a pretty lowbrow solution and I'm almost ashamed to say it here...but, when I was making a batch of bridges a while back, I thought, "Hey, could a guy slide a braced top under the end of the belt sander (on the little rampie, foldie, jiggy that we all make to use with the sander) at a set height and do the brace ends"?...whattyaknow, it works! So, that's the way I do them now... |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:34 am ] |
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Kevin, i hear you about the glueing part, do you have a tip for glueing evenly with HHG on kerfing so there's just enough squeeze out, i used HHG when i joined my tops and backs and it was kind of messy, you probably use a specific spout on your bottle or play with the glue viscosity??? My newb brains would like to know please! TIA! 
Serge |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:34 am ] |
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Like Larry said, drum sander to set the height of the brace end. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:42 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Bill Greene] OK, I'll ask...how does one go about getting their brace ends to be at exactly .100"? Is that through the use of a jig, or years of being able to do it or because you trim/measure/trim/measure, etc.? The reason I ask is because I too used a Dremel to cut my relief in, but because my brace ends were inconsistent at end thickness, I had to adjust the height of the dremel slightly to accomodate each end. Took some time. Thanks![/QUOTE] I have 2 thoughts on this... 1) Ask Lance. Man he is getting the tightest fit I have ever seen. 2) In GuitarMaker 51 there is a pretty simple and ingenious process for not only getting the ends all the same height, but to also get the channels the perfect size. |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:25 am ] |
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Anybody got a copy of GuitarMaker 51 they'll sell? |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:59 am ] |
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calling area 51! |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:50 am ] |
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Bill, I use a very similar method to what has been suggested by others here. I have a small adjustable block that I clamp to my belt sander that gives me the .100" thickness on the necessary length of the end of each brace. I cut the end thickness after the bracing has its 25 foot or 15 foot radius shaped onto it. I keep at least 250 sets of top and back bracing on hand that are cut to near finished sizes and separated according to their resonant frequency so these things are operations that i may do only a few times a year at best. I also keep that Dremel set up solely for that operation. I still hand mark the bracing locations for the cuts though. I've just never taken the time to make a jig for marking them and I enjoy doing it. There alot of operations that I could easily cut time or work from, but just haven't because I enjoy performing them the "old" way. I love jigs and fixtures and have my share, but there's a lot of charm in continuing with some of these things being done by hand. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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